Family First, with Shawn Meaike
Shawn Meaike, Founder, President, and CEO of Family First Life Insurance, shares how his early career in social work primed him for his future in insurance, the story of the day that changed his perspective on everything, the wealth of products now available to protect families, what makes the relationship between FFL and Southwestern Legacy special, and what kind of legacy he wants to leave for generations to come.
Transcript
Welcome to Let's Talk legacy of and I'm really
Gary Michels:excited about today's show as I actually get to spend time with
Gary Michels:Shawn Meaike, the president, founder and CEO of Family First
Gary Michels:Life and he started the company in 2013, building a company that
Gary Michels:truly puts both the families of our clients and the families of
Gary Michels:our agents as a priority to him. So welcome to the show, Shawn, I
Gary Michels:really appreciate you being on.
Shawn Meaike:Thanks for having me. Gary. Appreciate you, bud.
Gary Michels:So you started off your professional career in the
Gary Michels:social work area, in the Department of Children and
Gary Michels:Families, before you got into the insurance field. So where,
Gary Michels:where did that come from? And how did you get that piece of
Gary Michels:your heart that wanted you to be a servant and help others?
Shawn Meaike:Well you know, Gary, I think it was how I was
Shawn Meaike:raised. My mother raised me and my brother. My mother struggled
Shawn Meaike:financially, and she somehow thinks that that made her less
Shawn Meaike:of a parent, which is weird to me, because it made her more of
Shawn Meaike:a parent in my eyes, with what she did as a single mom. And I
Shawn Meaike:think I got to see a lot of dysfunction on both sides of my
Shawn Meaike:family, and I think I was blessed by that, you know,
Shawn Meaike:substance abuse was a big problem, you know, some
Shawn Meaike:violence. It was just, you know. So I think I went to college to
Shawn Meaike:play baseball, and I was a business major, and I was
Shawn Meaike:sitting in my economics class. Never forget, the professor went
Shawn Meaike:out to be a president of one of the universities in Connecticut.
Shawn Meaike:And I pulled her aside after my class, and I said, you know, can
Shawn Meaike:I ask you a question? She said, Yeah. I said, None of the
Shawn Meaike:professors here are actually businessmen or businesswoman.
Shawn Meaike:You're just teachers. I don't mean just teacher like it's not
Shawn Meaike:at all, but like you're teaching me on things you haven't done.
Shawn Meaike:And what I loved about her answer was she was transparent.
Shawn Meaike:And she said, if that's important to you, Sean, then you
Shawn Meaike:need to find a major where the folks that are teaching, they're
Shawn Meaike:living it. And I said, Can you recommend one for me? She said,
Shawn Meaike:social work. And so, you know, I didn't switch majors right away.
Shawn Meaike:I took a couple Social Work classes. And I'm like, God, I
Shawn Meaike:love this, like it was what I want to do, but God is great.
Shawn Meaike:And a buddy of mine called me and said, Hey, come to the
Shawn Meaike:Department of Children, Families and Work with abused, neglected
Shawn Meaike:children. And I was like, All right, I went interviewed, and I
Shawn Meaike:spent 14 years there. Man, it was probably the most gratifying
Shawn Meaike:job I've ever had in my life. It was definitely tough, but it was
Shawn Meaike:gratifying. So that's what led me there, and I think I had I
Shawn Meaike:didn't want to see women be in violent relationships. I didn't
Shawn Meaike:want to see kids abused. I don't want to see any kids or women
Shawn Meaike:hurt, for that matter, but I'd lived a lot of that, so I think
Shawn Meaike:I could relate to some of the kids I did a lot of the stupid
Shawn Meaike:things the 1516, year old boys I was working with were doing.
Shawn Meaike:They were angry and violent. I really loved my job. That's how
Shawn Meaike:I got there, though.
Gary Michels:It seems like that carries into your day. Not
Gary Michels:wanting to see your agents and see people out in the world
Gary Michels:hurt. It's still in you today?
Shawn Meaike:Well, selling life insurance is social work. That
Shawn Meaike:was the thing for me when when a guy named Jim Godwin introduced
Shawn Meaike:me to the business, I said, What do we do? And he said, we call
Shawn Meaike:people up and we protect them and their families. And I'm
Shawn Meaike:like, Well, I do that over here. And he said, Yeah, but you don't
Shawn Meaike:make enough money to live the life you want to live for you
Shawn Meaike:and your kids. And he was right. It struck me. I was like, okay,
Shawn Meaike:cool. But I really want to do things where making a
Shawn Meaike:difference, the money will come. I want to make a difference. And
Shawn Meaike:I'll never forget I was selling life insurance part time for
Shawn Meaike:about two and a half months, and I went to a home in waregan,
Shawn Meaike:Connecticut. Lady's name was Lisa, never forget it, and she
Shawn Meaike:answered the door and she said, you won't be able to help me.
Shawn Meaike:And I said, why not? And she said, Because I have stage three
Shawn Meaike:or four pancreatic cancer, like I'm dying. And she said, Can you
Shawn Meaike:help me? And I said, No, I didn't have any graded products
Shawn Meaike:that time. I like, had you, I couldn't get her insurance. Now
Shawn Meaike:I'm not gonna lie to anybody about anything. I was like,
Shawn Meaike:ma'am, I won't be she was in her early 30s, and her husband came
Shawn Meaike:around the corner, big old dude, started yelling at me, cussing
Shawn Meaike:me out. And I sat down both them for about a half an hour, and I
Shawn Meaike:got him a $250,000 policy, and he was healthy as a horse. I
Shawn Meaike:mean, big guy, great. I mean big guy. I mean 642, 30, great
Shawn Meaike:shape, not a partier, not on any medication. And 48 hours after I
Shawn Meaike:wrote him a policy, died in a motorcycle accident, and then
Shawn Meaike:she died shortly after that, and the only money the kids had was
Shawn Meaike:the quarter million dollars I got from him. I think Gary.
Shawn Meaike:After that happened. My whole perspective on insurance
Shawn Meaike:changed. The whole thing changed. Everybody's life is
Shawn Meaike:fragile. I realized you never know when it's your time. And I
Shawn Meaike:realized that middle class and lower middle class and lower
Shawn Meaike:class people weren't taught what wealthy people are talking
Shawn Meaike:about, life insurance. Nobody taught my life insurance when I
Shawn Meaike:was growing up. I'm a smart person. My mom's not dumb, she's
Shawn Meaike:smart, but we never talked about it. And I realized that when
Shawn Meaike:wealthy folks died, it was like, it was like an event, right?
Shawn Meaike:Like nobody wanted to happen, but like they had everything,
Shawn Meaike:like people got paid, like they actually planned for these
Shawn Meaike:things and put money in place and developed legacies. The
Shawn Meaike:first time I heard the word legacy that meant anything to me
Shawn Meaike:outside of sports was in life insurance, and I'll never forget
Shawn Meaike:a guy said to me, Shawn, when you meet with people, they're
Shawn Meaike:already going to leave a legacy. All we're trying to do is tell
Shawn Meaike:the. Be a positive one, but if they do not have life insurance,
Shawn Meaike:and they leave their wife and children, you know, encumbered
Shawn Meaike:with bills gotta pay for their their funerals, they leave a
Shawn Meaike:negative legacy. So I really wanted to not only help them
Shawn Meaike:leave a positive one, but prevent them from putting their
Shawn Meaike:families in a terrible position. Because, okay, what's going to
Shawn Meaike:happen if you die, or he dies, or you both die? So, yeah, it
Shawn Meaike:became my passion. What I trained agents Gary. I knew that
Shawn Meaike:a lot of times we had one shot. You call somebody, you go meet
Shawn Meaike:with them. They opened up to you and they gave you an
Shawn Meaike:opportunity. And if you screw it up, when I say screw it up, I
Shawn Meaike:mean, you left them and they're not going to meet with anybody
Shawn Meaike:else ever again. Did you give it everything that you had? If you
Shawn Meaike:did, that's all you can do. But if you didn't, that's a problem.
Gary Michels:When you were creating this company, how much
Gary Michels:of that went through your mind, and how much does that still go
Gary Michels:through your mind today, this isn't just revenue for the
Gary Michels:company, it's so many people were changing their lives.
Shawn Meaike:Well, I think that it goes it's what I live by,
Shawn Meaike:Gary, I mean, I've never changed that thought process for me,
Shawn Meaike:every client is an opportunity to do good or, unfortunately, to
Shawn Meaike:fail. And failing is not them saying no, failing is you not
Shawn Meaike:doing everything you need to do professionally, respectfully, to
Shawn Meaike:put them in a better position the P I've had clients I went
Shawn Meaike:and met with Gary that had died after that and didn't get life
Shawn Meaike:insurance. But there is not one time that I ever look back and
Shawn Meaike:go, I wish I would have said this, because I did everything I
Shawn Meaike:could with every single client I met with. Because I wake and
Shawn Meaike:sleep at night, right? I only put my head on the pillow go,
Shawn Meaike:you know, what did you do everything you could? I did, and
Shawn Meaike:I feel the same way with agents, because I think the thing about
Shawn Meaike:life insurance is this is that everybody's gonna die, so
Shawn Meaike:everybody's gotta have it, right? And the vast majority of
Shawn Meaike:people don't have it, or don't have enough, they admit to that,
Shawn Meaike:and then they get vulnerable and fill out a lead and send it back
Shawn Meaike:to somebody selling the life insurance is all about getting
Shawn Meaike:in front of as many people as you can, as often as you can
Shawn Meaike:get, as uncomfortable as you can challenge them, as much as you
Shawn Meaike:can, because their legacy has to be as important to you as yours
Shawn Meaike:is. I want other people to win as much I want myself to win.
Shawn Meaike:You. That's a lie. No, it's not a lie. If you go, do I care more
Shawn Meaike:about your kids than my kids? No, I can't care more about your
Shawn Meaike:kids than my kids, and I don't care equally. They're my
Shawn Meaike:children, just like, it'd be weird. If you're like, I care as
Shawn Meaike:much about you can't that would be awkward. But your success, I
Shawn Meaike:care as much about your success as I do my own. And I think for
Shawn Meaike:me, we have such an amazing opportunity, because I give you
Shawn Meaike:100 stories of people I met with. They thought they had
Shawn Meaike:insurance. This guy didn't do the they didn't really put it.
Shawn Meaike:They didn't challenge them. If I left the house or I got off a
Shawn Meaike:phone call or I got off a zoom, as long as I did every darn
Shawn Meaike:thing I could do. When you do it that way, you put them first. I
Shawn Meaike:was never afraid to say anything, because you as a
Shawn Meaike:client were more important. Your family's protection, your
Shawn Meaike:legacy, your safety, financially, was more important
Shawn Meaike:than my feelings. And when you do that for people, they become
Shawn Meaike:very comfortable because they know you genuinely care about
Shawn Meaike:them.
Gary Michels:Yeah, it's interesting in the time that
Gary Michels:I've been here, so much of it was about the final expense, and
Gary Michels:that is such a policy that I think so important for people to
Gary Michels:have. Maybe you could share with people a little bit your
Gary Michels:philosophy on how so many more products have come available.
Gary Michels:Maybe they've been around for years. But what is mortgage
Gary Michels:protection? What is a cash back offer type policy? What is the
Gary Michels:IUL, the index, Universal Life of setting up your retirement
Gary Michels:and having life insurance serve as not only a protection in case
Gary Michels:you do pass what you're going to but also potentially have a
Gary Michels:certain amount of money being every month that you sent in
Gary Michels:your retirement, when you retired, could you share for the
Gary Michels:person that maybe isn't as educated about giving people
Gary Michels:lots of choices and why they need those choices?
Shawn Meaike:Yeah, I think the beautiful thing about what we do
Shawn Meaike:is we have an opportunity, an option for everybody. When you
Shawn Meaike:find somebody who's, you know, 60, 70, 80, plus years of age,
Shawn Meaike:you know, he or she can get themselves a whole life policy.
Shawn Meaike:You call it five I spent. You call it whole life. You get a
Shawn Meaike:policy where you pay X amount of dollars a month. Here's a death
Shawn Meaike:benefit. You got that till you know, whatever it's like, till
Shawn Meaike:the day you die, right? I was raised in this business with
Shawn Meaike:term return of premium. So, oh, wait, what I was attracted to
Shawn Meaike:was, here's a policy they pay in every month, and at the end of
Shawn Meaike:their term, they outlived it, and it paid me back. So that's
Shawn Meaike:an amazing product. To your point about the index universal
Shawn Meaike:life, if you've never read the book tax free retirement, I
Shawn Meaike:think y'all should read it. I don't care what other books you
Shawn Meaike:read in your life by Patrick Kelly. It's an unbelievable
Shawn Meaike:book. I was introduced that book early in my life insurance
Shawn Meaike:career. I had never I didn't know what an index universal
Shawn Meaike:life was. It explained I had gotten into my 401 k when I was
Shawn Meaike:in my 20s at the state and I didn't realize what was
Shawn Meaike:happening. I had to wait till age 59, and a half out of
Shawn Meaike:people, cash them out and take a huge penalty. It just It taught
Shawn Meaike:me a lot about index universal life. I bought myself a policy
Shawn Meaike:in the next universal. Of and set that up when I think about
Shawn Meaike:whatever age I decide to start pulling the money out. So that's
Shawn Meaike:an amazing product. And the index Universal Life has changed
Shawn Meaike:our business. Matter of fact, half of our business by the end
Shawn Meaike:of this year will be IUL. Now, why is that so amazing? It has
Shawn Meaike:so many different benefits. You talked about the retirement, you
Shawn Meaike:talked about it being tax free, you talked about the opportunity
Shawn Meaike:to be able to utilize your money earlier when you're in
Shawn Meaike:insurance, I think you need to be very honest about the
Shawn Meaike:products. You know, they're not magical. I see people say things
Shawn Meaike:about products that is not true. I don't like that. I give you
Shawn Meaike:the good. I give you what might be the I give you the strengths
Shawn Meaike:and weaknesses of everything. Here's how this works, here's
Shawn Meaike:how they're gonna take your money. Here's the cost of
Shawn Meaike:insurance. Here's what goes in an investment. Here's how it's
Shawn Meaike:performed over this many years. Here's a guarantee, here's a non
Shawn Meaike:guarantee. And I think that's part of why I've had a very
Shawn Meaike:successful insurance career, is, you know, I always told my kids
Shawn Meaike:when they were young, a salesperson has has a successful
Shawn Meaike:career if he or she can walk around in the communities that
Shawn Meaike:they sell in and help people in and be excited to see people. I
Shawn Meaike:never wanted to bump into somebody at the grocery store
Shawn Meaike:and have them be like, walk the other way. I wanted to be like,
Shawn Meaike:That's my insurance guy. I'd be out my kids all over the place,
Shawn Meaike:and people would not remember my name, and they'd be like, you
Shawn Meaike:were at my house. You're my insurance guy. I'm like, Yeah,
Shawn Meaike:I'm your insurance guy, but that was my job as was, to protect
Shawn Meaike:you and protect your legacy. So there's a lot of diversity in
Shawn Meaike:products. That's also why I think if you get in the
Shawn Meaike:insurance business. You should be independent, like, you should
Shawn Meaike:get multiple carriers. I People call me all the time. We sell
Shawn Meaike:this one product. What do you think I should do? I'm like, I'd
Shawn Meaike:quit if failing first life was like, you can sell one product,
Shawn Meaike:one product only. Y'all should quit. And then also, what
Shawn Meaike:happens when you do that is you start selling people that one
Shawn Meaike:product, like, they probably could have gotten something
Shawn Meaike:else, but you're out there going, I don't make any money if
Shawn Meaike:they don't buy this one product from me, all I got is this one
Shawn Meaike:product. So one of the things I'm proudest of, you know, the
Shawn Meaike:annuity be able to protect people's retire. That was 2009 I
Shawn Meaike:hadn't sold an annuity. The guy sat me down and said, You need
Shawn Meaike:to ask people what they're doing with their safe money. Ask them
Shawn Meaike:if they're a saver and investor. I knocked on a door, knock this
Shawn Meaike:lady's trailer. I opened the door and I got COPD right away,
Shawn Meaike:because she must smoke like 14 cards and cigarettes a day off.
Shawn Meaike:Then her husband came with her, both smoking. She's got cancer,
Shawn Meaike:but she had had treatments, or she's in good health, but I'm
Shawn Meaike:like, she's not going to get these products because she's
Shawn Meaike:smoking. She doesn't have a history of cancer, she has other
Shawn Meaike:stuff going on. Yes, you've been cancer free for a little bit of
Shawn Meaike:time, but not long enough for me to really take care of you. And
Shawn Meaike:I'm just talking. I've just asked the question the guy, I
Shawn Meaike:said, What do y'all do with your safe money? She said, What does
Shawn Meaike:that mean? I said, money you have that you don't want to
Shawn Meaike:lose. She goes, I have money in the market. I lose all the time.
Shawn Meaike:My 401, K is killing me. So I'm like, how about you on your 1k
Shawn Meaike:I'm assuming Gary, she's going to say eight grand, 12 grand, 20
Shawn Meaike:grand, 30 grand. She said, just over a million dollars. And I'm
Shawn Meaike:like, what? She's like, I worked at JCPenney since I was 18, and
Shawn Meaike:they matched me for and I was like, how much have you lost the
Shawn Meaike:last quarter? She told me was obnoxious. I wrote her annuity
Shawn Meaike:for a million bucks. Her husband won for 300 grand. I'd never
Shawn Meaike:written one before, and every year they would call me like
Shawn Meaike:they didn't lose any money. They didn't lose again anything we've
Shawn Meaike:gone through economically when covid hit. I wasn't worried
Shawn Meaike:about my clients that had an IUL or nobody losing any money.
Shawn Meaike:Matter of fact, the thing I used to say to them was, I'm not
Shawn Meaike:licensed to lose you any money. I have an insurance license. I'm
Shawn Meaike:not a securities guy. I don't even have the ability to get you
Shawn Meaike:in a product where you can lose money on it. So it's good to
Shawn Meaike:have access to all being able to help people.
Gary Michels:Three and a half years ago, you met with a few of
Gary Michels:our leaders in our company. Where do you align with
Gary Michels:Southwestern? Where do you think our two companies align? And
Gary Michels:what do you think's important for someone to be successful?
Shawn Meaike:I think the thing I like the most about it was the
Shawn Meaike:work ethic. Yes, because that was impressive. It looked like
Shawn Meaike:it was. It was a really great relationship. And I think Gary
Shawn Meaike:with full transparency, working with you and some other folks
Shawn Meaike:now is really solidified that you are a guy in the field. You
Shawn Meaike:are a guy that knows what it takes. You are a guy that should
Shawn Meaike:be on this podcast, and with full transparency, that was
Shawn Meaike:always what I believed in it, you know, I mean, like, I'm a
Shawn Meaike:sales guy. I got my life insurance license. I went and
Shawn Meaike:sold, we launched fan first life I was in the field full time. I
Shawn Meaike:owned the company on the president of the company, the
Shawn Meaike:insurance carriers would call me and be like, Hey, we're trying
Shawn Meaike:to get a hold of I'm like, I'm selling. They're like, you sell
Shawn Meaike:life insurance. I'm like, Yes, I'm in life insurance. So, like,
Shawn Meaike:you're the president of the company. I'm like, is there a
Shawn Meaike:rule that says I can't sell? Like, no, there's no rule. I'm
Shawn Meaike:okay. I enjoy helping people. Why would I not want to do that?
Shawn Meaike:So you guys, for a long time about the community helping
Shawn Meaike:people. I want to build people too, Gary. And I think a lot of
Shawn Meaike:the folks I was building people didn't necessarily believe in
Shawn Meaike:them. They weren't raised in this situation. Was like, hey
Shawn Meaike:man, all you gotta do is show up and grandpa, let me run the
Shawn Meaike:company. They're trying to find their way. And a lot of times
Shawn Meaike:this entrepreneurial journey is their first entrepreneurial
Shawn Meaike:journey. And also, folks pull against them, not because
Shawn Meaike:they're bad people, they just don't know they're not
Shawn Meaike:entrepreneurs. So it's easy to be scared of what you don't
Shawn Meaike:know. So I have to appreciate them. They're on colorful list.
Shawn Meaike:So I look at guys like you and and me, my job was to walk and
Shawn Meaike:put my hand on the guy's back and be like, Hey, man. And I
Shawn Meaike:know a lot of people are telling you can't do it. I know a lot of
Shawn Meaike:people are saying things like, if it's too good to be true, it
Shawn Meaike:is, and yada yada. You know what? It's a great industry. I
Shawn Meaike:looked at you guys, and you had a lot of guys and girls with a
Shawn Meaike:blue collar mentality to go out there and serve people. And
Shawn Meaike:you're fearless.
Gary Michels:One last question that like, that's such a big
Gary Michels:question we always ask on every one of our podcasts. Shawn is,
Gary Michels:what does legacy mean to you?
Shawn Meaike:For me, personally, we live our lives
Shawn Meaike:however long, those lives last 100 years, 20 years, 80 years,
Shawn Meaike:we do leave a legacy, good, bad or indifferent. I think that for
Shawn Meaike:Shawn Meaike, I want to make a difference in the world. I'm not
Shawn Meaike:delusional. I don't think that everybody across the earth knows
Shawn Meaike:who I can make a difference in everybody's lives individually,
Shawn Meaike:I would do the best I can in my portion of the world. I'm gonna
Shawn Meaike:do the best I can with the people that I impact. I want to
Shawn Meaike:leave behind belief level for other people. I want to help
Shawn Meaike:people create wealth for their families. I do want to put a
Shawn Meaike:hedge of protection and financially different people.
Shawn Meaike:And I think I'm driven by the underdog. You know, it's not
Shawn Meaike:that I haven't written life insurance and all kinds of
Shawn Meaike:people, but the folks that are really in a tough position,
Shawn Meaike:like, I'll never forget what I've done to be able to put them
Shawn Meaike:in a better position. You know, there's a way. If you when you
Shawn Meaike:have kids and you're when you're a dad and you have sons, I read
Shawn Meaike:this long time ago, you go through three phases. Every Dad
Shawn Meaike:and son goes to three phases. First phase is your son will
Shawn Meaike:idolize you. The second phase, he'll demonize you, then he'll
Shawn Meaike:humanize you. And I remember asking this, this psychologist
Shawn Meaike:that was saying it one day ago, he goes, and the hardest thing
Shawn Meaike:will be, if you've been a really good dad, he'll idolize you
Shawn Meaike:longer than he was supposed to. I was like, really? It's like,
Shawn Meaike:yeah, that'll actually last longer, like he shouldn't be
Shawn Meaike:idolizing you when he's 1819, 20. And for me, I don't know how
Shawn Meaike:long people are going to talk about us when we're gone, but I
Shawn Meaike:want to do enough good in the world, in causes, giving money
Shawn Meaike:back, making a difference. And if some grandkid one day says, I
Shawn Meaike:don't know, man, my dad, he went on my my grandpa, first he went
Shawn Meaike:and build a business and life insurance, then my dad got in.
Shawn Meaike:That's how we've been able and here's we've been able to do,
Shawn Meaike:and we give back over here. But if we hadn't found that, and
Shawn Meaike:some guy ran it out, his name might have been Shawn, I don't
Shawn Meaike:know, fam first, like, if that's the way it works, I want people
Shawn Meaike:to and I want to be honest with me that that I was hard
Shawn Meaike:charging, that I was a pain in the butt at times, that I
Shawn Meaike:probably could have said things a different way, that I maybe
Shawn Meaike:was a little bit too passionate, but damn, my motives were good,
Shawn Meaike:and that I inspired people that didn't believe in themselves to
Shawn Meaike:believe in themselves. And then I want to help other people
Shawn Meaike:realize they're leaving a legacy too, whether it's positive
Shawn Meaike:negative, you're leaving something. And I want to help
Shawn Meaike:people develop that and leave that because it will last for
Shawn Meaike:generations, especially if it's the first time somebody's doing
Shawn Meaike:it in their family, to be somebody that breaks the mold.
Shawn Meaike:Our family was heading this way, and I took us a different
Shawn Meaike:direction, showed us a lot more to this world. So I'm very, very
Shawn Meaike:focused on legacy.
Gary Michels:Well Shawn, thank you for being on with us today.
Gary Michels:I always ask people if they have more questions, if someone wants
Gary Michels:to get in touch with you, how would they reach you?
Shawn Meaike:They go to my Instagram. It's just my first
Shawn Meaike:name, Shawn, s h, a w n, last names, m, e, a, i, k, e, they
Shawn Meaike:can find me on Instagram there, um, you send me a DM. I'll get
Shawn Meaike:back. If you're looking for some help with something. By all
Shawn Meaike:means you can do that. You go to the website, ShawnMeaike.com, so
Shawn Meaike:again, S, H, A, W, n, m, e, a, i, k, e, you can find me there
Shawn Meaike:get information if somebody will reach out to you. Because I
Shawn Meaike:remember what it was like when I started, and I remember how hard
Shawn Meaike:it was to find information and find credible people that could
Shawn Meaike:give me information. I want to, I want to help eliminate that
Shawn Meaike:gap for a lot of people.
Gary Michels:Well you've been listening to, let's talk legacy
Gary Michels:with Shawn Meaike, thank you so much for being on the show
Gary Michels:today. That's awesome.
Shawn Meaike:Thanks guys. Appreciate y'all.
