Episode 48

full
Published on:

3rd Jul 2024

Luck and Power, with Garrett Neiman

Garrett Neiman, serial nonprofit entrepreneur, activist, founding CEO of CollegeSpring, co-creator of Liberation Ventures, and Senior Fellow at Prosperity Now, walks listeners through the issues of race and wealth discussed in his book, "RICH WHITE MEN: What It Takes to Uproot the Old Boys’ Club and Transform America", including the relationship between luck and power, "compounding unearned advantage", how America is a country of opposites on social issues, figuring out exactly how much is enough, and the "7 generations principle" of leaving a legacy.

Transcript
Gary Michels:

Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy. I'm your host Gary

Gary Michels:

Michels. Today our guest is awesome. Garrett Neiman is a

Gary Michels:

serial nonprofit entrepreneur, and activist, founding CEO at

Gary Michels:

college spring, co creator of liberation ventures and senior

Gary Michels:

fellow at prosperity now, he is also the author of the new book

Gary Michels:

Rich White Men: what it takes to uproot the old boys club and

Gary Michels:

transform America. So welcome to the show.

Garrett Neiman:

I appreciate it. Gary, thank you so much for

Garrett Neiman:

having me.

Gary Michels:

Let's dig right into some questions and have a

Gary Michels:

really healthy conversation here. We're going to talk about

Gary Michels:

a few things today that for many of our listeners play major

Gary Michels:

roles in shaping a legacy, which is what our shows about, and

Gary Michels:

those are race and wealth. You're dedicated your career to

Gary Michels:

helping the rich give their money away to social justice

Gary Michels:

causes. But I want to start with the hard question. A lot of

Gary Michels:

listeners might be thinking, you are a successful white man. So

Gary Michels:

what qualifies you to speak objectively on things like

Gary Michels:

inequity and privilege and give us your background?

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, absolutely happy to share a little bit of

Garrett Neiman:

my journey. And I think the way I think about it is that really

Garrett Neiman:

none of us are positioned to objectively speak about really

Garrett Neiman:

anything, including social justice issues that I take, what

Garrett Neiman:

I have to offer is my own lived experience and path and take

Garrett Neiman:

what feels helpful or useful in your own life and let the rest

Garrett Neiman:

go. The connection to legacy for me runs pretty deep, because I

Garrett Neiman:

grew up in Orange County, California, the white affluent

Garrett Neiman:

suburb, but then when I was six, my younger brother died in the

Garrett Neiman:

accident, completely turned my family's whole life upside down.

Garrett Neiman:

And I think going through that experience, it just really

Garrett Neiman:

helped me see how life can be short and fragile. And, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, basically, as long as I can remember, I've tried to live

Garrett Neiman:

a life that's meaningful and aligned with values and so

Garrett Neiman:

forth. You know, so for me, you know, the the main way that

Garrett Neiman:

manifested is entering the nonprofit sector mice. My

Garrett Neiman:

sister's adopted from China, I raised money for her former

Garrett Neiman:

orphanage when I was in high school. And then when I went to

Garrett Neiman:

college at Stanford, I started college spring, which is a

Garrett Neiman:

national college access nonprofit, helping low income

Garrett Neiman:

students of color prepare for the SATs, and become the first

Garrett Neiman:

in their families to go to college. And, you know, we

Garrett Neiman:

served about 20,000 students during my tenure raise $15

Garrett Neiman:

million, got recognized by the Obama White House. So on the one

Garrett Neiman:

hand, it was this big success. But on the other hand, that

Garrett Neiman:

decade of work really helped me see how programs like ours,

Garrett Neiman:

frankly, we're really ill equipped to address the deep

Garrett Neiman:

systemic barriers that students of color and high poverty

Garrett Neiman:

communities faced. And so I've been on a journey since to

Garrett Neiman:

really try to understand the root causes of inequality, how

Garrett Neiman:

they can be addressed. And also, you know, what is my role in the

Garrett Neiman:

work as a white man, and particularly a straight able

Garrett Neiman:

bodied white man who grew up in a wealthy family and attended

Garrett Neiman:

private schools that I think there's a real desire among many

Garrett Neiman:

people who share my background to contribute. But I think

Garrett Neiman:

there's really, particularly in this moment, a lack of clarity

Garrett Neiman:

about what that role can look like.

Gary Michels:

So you say that people at the top, often rich

Gary Michels:

white men, too often are preserving their wealth over

Gary Michels:

generations using what you call compounding unearned advantage.

Gary Michels:

So what is compounding unearned advantage?

Garrett Neiman:

Unearned advantage is simply a way of

Garrett Neiman:

saying that, you know, those of us who have advantaged identity

Garrett Neiman:

markers like growing up in a wealthy family or growing up

Garrett Neiman:

white, growing up male and so forth, that does lead to some

Garrett Neiman:

unearned advantages in our lives and compounded unearned

Garrett Neiman:

advantage as a way of talking about how when those show up

Garrett Neiman:

sequentially through our experiences, it's a way that

Garrett Neiman:

those advantages actually compound you know that there's

Garrett Neiman:

studies that show that white teachers believe white students

Garrett Neiman:

are higher potential. There's evidence now that parents school

Garrett Neiman:

more often is my son gifted than is my daughter gifted and

Garrett Neiman:

certainly, you know, if you go to school in an affluent

Garrett Neiman:

community, teachers have more time to advocate for their

Garrett Neiman:

students. In affluent families, parents have more time to

Garrett Neiman:

advocate for their children, you know, so there's all these ways

Garrett Neiman:

where these seemingly subtle compounding unearned advantage

Garrett Neiman:

is really a way of talking to folks who understand how

Garrett Neiman:

compound interest works, you know that if a slightly higher

Garrett Neiman:

annual return adds up to a lot exponentially over time. The

Garrett Neiman:

same thing can be true for our identity based unearned

Garrett Neiman:

advantages that seemingly small unearned advantages can really

Garrett Neiman:

shift trajectories and produce large societal disparities.

Gary Michels:

What exactly is the problem was someone wanting

Gary Michels:

to preserve their wealth for future generations, especially

Gary Michels:

within their own family?

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, it's a really good question. And I

Garrett Neiman:

think in a certain sense, there isn't a problem and I think In

Garrett Neiman:

particular, it's very rational, the way that our society is

Garrett Neiman:

currently structured that in by inequality societies, there's a

Garrett Neiman:

real hunger to want to cling to whatever rung you're on like

Garrett Neiman:

that, if you imagine just sort of a ladder, you know that in a

Garrett Neiman:

high inequality society, the gaps between the rungs are

Garrett Neiman:

pretty large, that there's major differences in quality of life,

Garrett Neiman:

if you fall down a rung on that on the ladder, and, you know, in

Garrett Neiman:

America, we don't have too much of a safety net, you know, so,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, if you're at the very bottom of that ladder and let

Garrett Neiman:

go, you know, you don't land in a safety net, you land in

Garrett Neiman:

something that's more like a fiery pit, which nobody wants.

Garrett Neiman:

The challenge with that is that from a societal perspective,

Garrett Neiman:

that leads to a system that basically stays the way it is.

Garrett Neiman:

And so what I've become interested in is, what does it

Garrett Neiman:

look like to produce a society where there's less inequality,

Garrett Neiman:

and we don't have to be so anxious and scared about where

Garrett Neiman:

exactly we fall on the ladder that I think about things like

Garrett Neiman:

the college admissions craziness these days to try to get into an

Garrett Neiman:

elite university. You know, that only happens in a society where,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, going to a Stanford or Harvard or Yale means you could

Garrett Neiman:

become a billionaire and the society were going graduating

Garrett Neiman:

from community college or state university doesn't guarantee a

Garrett Neiman:

living wage. You know, that's where those high stakes come

Garrett Neiman:

from. So what does it look like to protect ourselves and our

Garrett Neiman:

families against risks of the society as it is, but also how

Garrett Neiman:

do we protect against the risk of a society that stays like it

Garrett Neiman:

is?

Gary Michels:

What would that look like for you, if the United

Gary Michels:

States invested in these people more than they are now for? You

Gary Michels:

could say, we actually are a society that does do this.

Garrett Neiman:

So I think there's there's different ways

Garrett Neiman:

of looking at this. But I think at a, you know, a very basic

Garrett Neiman:

level, I think about you know, how many, you know, how many

Garrett Neiman:

Einsteins, how many steve jobs are out there who are societies

Garrett Neiman:

is not not investing in. And if you're if you're in a situation

Garrett Neiman:

where you're focused on your day to day survival, you know, just

Garrett Neiman:

trying to pay your rent check, or, you know, pay the bills, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, that you're not going to be able to invest in your your

Garrett Neiman:

talents and gifts and unique capabilities and skills. And so,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, what does it look like to create a society that offers

Garrett Neiman:

that for more people? And I think that what I'm very

Garrett Neiman:

interested in is what does it look like to invest in every

Garrett Neiman:

community in America so that every person can have

Garrett Neiman:

opportunities like I had growing up?

Gary Michels:

What would be some of those opportunities? What

Gary Michels:

does that look like for the government to really give more?

Garrett Neiman:

The approach I've become particularly

Garrett Neiman:

interested in just because I think it's simple, is direct

Garrett Neiman:

cash transfers to folks. And that can be on an income basis,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, that you may have come across ideas like the universal

Garrett Neiman:

basic income. You know, other folks have talked about things

Garrett Neiman:

like a universal basic capital, or things like baby bonds that

Garrett Neiman:

are basically a trust fund that matures over a low wealth

Garrett Neiman:

child's lifetime, and enables him to pay for college or a down

Garrett Neiman:

payment, or whatever it may be that wealth inequality is so

Garrett Neiman:

high in American society that we're leaving a lot on the

Garrett Neiman:

table, by enabling things to continue down that path. So just

Garrett Neiman:

as one concrete example, you know, Larry Page and Sergey

Garrett Neiman:

Brin, the co founder, co founders of Google, have a

Garrett Neiman:

combined wealth of about $200 billion. Larry and Sergey have

Garrett Neiman:

enough money to create an endowment that provides $100,000

Garrett Neiman:

guaranteed income to everyone in San Francisco who lives in

Garrett Neiman:

poverty. Plus, they have enough money to provide a million

Garrett Neiman:

dollars in reparations to every black family that's been locked

Garrett Neiman:

out of intergenerational wealth in San Francisco, and they would

Garrett Neiman:

have something like $70 billion leftover at the end of that, you

Garrett Neiman:

know whether or not you agree with those specific policies, we

Garrett Neiman:

have a lot of resources locked up in vaults of the very, very

Garrett Neiman:

few. And if those resources were invested in marginalized

Garrett Neiman:

communities that have historically been locked out of

Garrett Neiman:

wealth, building opportunities, that would make an enormous

Garrett Neiman:

difference. And there's efforts now like the mayors for a

Garrett Neiman:

guaranteed income that over I think over 100 mayors have

Garrett Neiman:

signed on to now to run these pilots in their communities. And

Garrett Neiman:

what they're finding is, you know, when people who don't have

Garrett Neiman:

well have an extra 500 bucks a month, 1000 bucks a month, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, they're able to make better decisions, decisions that

Garrett Neiman:

better suit them for the long term, that the same way that a

Garrett Neiman:

cash strapped business is going to have a hard time focusing for

Garrett Neiman:

the long term. You know, the same thing is true for families

Garrett Neiman:

that don't have well so you know, families that get these

Garrett Neiman:

stipends are able to do things like take a day off and

Garrett Neiman:

interview for another job that pays better and is a better fit

Garrett Neiman:

for their skills or, you know, to invest in continuing

Garrett Neiman:

education or whatever it may be that there's all of these

Garrett Neiman:

different opportunities that are available to Folks once there

Garrett Neiman:

once they're not quite so cash strapped.

Gary Michels:

Got it. That's big. But let's talk a little bit

Gary Michels:

about what you kind of explained as an interesting relationship

Gary Michels:

between luck and power. Can you talk to that a little bit?

Garrett Neiman:

This was one of the more interesting aspects of,

Garrett Neiman:

of my journey into this is that I think luck is often maybe not

Garrett Neiman:

always, but I think most of the time, good luck has something to

Garrett Neiman:

do with a powerful person making a decision that benefits us, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, things that felt like serendipity, you know, that

Garrett Neiman:

there really is a component of power attached to it.

Gary Michels:

So what's your definition of luck?

Garrett Neiman:

For the most part, I think luck is when a

Garrett Neiman:

powerful person, usually a rich white man makes a decision that

Garrett Neiman:

benefits us.

Gary Michels:

This is my definition. I'd like to hear

Gary Michels:

what your thoughts are on it. Luck is where preparation meets

Gary Michels:

opportunity. Do you think that just because a person maybe as

Gary Michels:

at a lower economic level or lower status level, they should

Gary Michels:

still be able to be given privileges? If they haven't put

Gary Michels:

the work in the preparation? Are they still entitled? Because

Gary Michels:

that's not healthy for the society either.

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, absolutely. It's a really good

Garrett Neiman:

question. And I liked your definition of luck. And maybe

Garrett Neiman:

it's even better than my definition. I've heard this one

Garrett Neiman:

before. And I think, yes, the preparation matters. And that

Garrett Neiman:

preparation doesn't necessarily yield the same things for

Garrett Neiman:

everybody. And I think about, you know, my great grandfather,

Garrett Neiman:

for example, who emigrated to the US he does escaped

Garrett Neiman:

persecution as a Jew from the Russian Tsar, you know, and he,

Garrett Neiman:

he worked in the steel mills in Ohio as a 12 year old, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

eventually found his way to Saudi to business that he ended

Garrett Neiman:

up buying and running epicbot plant that was the family's

Garrett Neiman:

business that eventually led to real estate being acquired that

Garrett Neiman:

provided the foundation of wealth for my family, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

so, you know, he's somebody who, you know, when you talk about

Garrett Neiman:

preparation meets opportunity, I mean, worked incredibly hard,

Garrett Neiman:

incredibly, intentionally, to access opportunity. And there's,

Garrett Neiman:

there's this complexity where, you know, the real estate he

Garrett Neiman:

bought, for example, was in red line communities that were only

Garrett Neiman:

available to white folks, you know, so it's this weird thing,

Garrett Neiman:

where, for me to talk as if my great grandfather who worked in

Garrett Neiman:

the steel mills as a 12 year old, you know, to say that, Oh,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, like, he is so privileged. I mean, he faced a

Garrett Neiman:

lot of obstacles, you know, but then it's still the case that,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, that that hard work, and resourcefulness yielded

Garrett Neiman:

something different for him than it might have for somebody else.

Garrett Neiman:

And that's, that's the big complexity, and red all we have

Garrett Neiman:

in our society is that it really is both that are showing up in

Garrett Neiman:

the outcomes people get.

Gary Michels:

That makes sense. Now, surely, the problem can't

Gary Michels:

be exclusively limited to white men, there must be some examples

Gary Michels:

of wealthy woman using compounding unearned advantage

Gary Michels:

or wealthy individuals of other races. What does the research

Gary Michels:

show? Do you have any statistics that can illustrate the

Gary Michels:

imbalance a little bit?

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, and like we were talking about earlier,

Garrett Neiman:

like, it's some of both here. Like, I don't want to say that,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, there aren't any wealthy white women who, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, are quite advantaged in our system. And, you know, like,

Garrett Neiman:

even for me is, you know, like, as a Jewish person, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

that, like, there's still anti semitism in the US, you know, so

Garrett Neiman:

like you for me, you know, that it's not that I'm the most

Garrett Neiman:

advantaged person in all of America, you know, I think the

Garrett Neiman:

way I've come to see it is, you know, that I can acknowledge

Garrett Neiman:

that, overall, the system favors me, you know, even if it doesn't

Garrett Neiman:

favor me, absolutely. In every situation, you know, more than

Garrett Neiman:

any other person on the planet. And so, you know, like, very

Garrett Neiman:

wealthy white women, you know, are in that category of highly

Garrett Neiman:

advantaged folks, I chose to talk about wealthy white men in

Garrett Neiman:

my work, because I feel like there's not a lot of wealthy

Garrett Neiman:

white men who are willing to take that on. And what I found

Garrett Neiman:

across differences is, you know, that if you're a wealthy white

Garrett Neiman:

woman, you know, you still don't necessarily feel safe going for

Garrett Neiman:

a run at night. Or if you're a wealthy black man, you still

Garrett Neiman:

might be afraid that a cop is gonna pull up, pull you over,

Garrett Neiman:

and something's gonna happen to you, you know, so there's this

Garrett Neiman:

complexity where, you know, even even folks who are advantaged in

Garrett Neiman:

a number of ways if you're missing even one of those

Garrett Neiman:

advantaged identity markers, it's going to impact your

Garrett Neiman:

experience a lot, you know, so how do we acknowledge that?

Gary Michels:

Now, we talked a little bit about these two

Gary Michels:

separate issues here race and gender and inequity in it? Is

Gary Michels:

one posing a larger challenge than the other?

Garrett Neiman:

It's a really good question. I think the the

Garrett Neiman:

best way I can think of how to describe it is, you know, when

Garrett Neiman:

you look at who you know, who holds wealth and power in our

Garrett Neiman:

society, you're gonna see a lot more a lot more white women in

Garrett Neiman:

those positions. And then black folks, for example. And then

Garrett Neiman:

also, when you look at people's political press principle, it's

Garrett Neiman:

really interesting that if, if you think of, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

conservative and progressive, as you know, not saying that one is

Garrett Neiman:

better than the other, but that if progressive is about, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, changing society dramatically, you know, and

Garrett Neiman:

conservative is about conserving society the way it is, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

it's interesting that, you know, white men as a group, not

Garrett Neiman:

everybody, but white men, as a group are the most politically

Garrett Neiman:

conservative. Black women are the most politically

Garrett Neiman:

progressive, you know, so I think there's, there's something

Garrett Neiman:

about, you know, how how people really vote in ways that

Garrett Neiman:

suggests that in order for people from different groups to

Garrett Neiman:

feel like they can succeed in America, there's different

Garrett Neiman:

viewpoints about how much the society needs to change.

Gary Michels:

Is there one of these you think that's moving

Gary Michels:

quicker and gaining momentum?

Garrett Neiman:

It's so complicated, because there's

Garrett Neiman:

like, there's so much, you know, moving forward and backwards all

Garrett Neiman:

the time, like, and we're in a very strange time in America,

Garrett Neiman:

like when you look at racial justice, for example, the

Garrett Neiman:

nullification of race based affirmative action is a big step

Garrett Neiman:

backward on the gender fraud, you know, that Roe versus Wade

Garrett Neiman:

is seen by many as a big step backward. And then you have this

Garrett Neiman:

bizarre, you know, counter reality where, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

policies like reparations, you know, are gaining traction in

Garrett Neiman:

California and cities like Evanston, Illinois in ways that

Garrett Neiman:

have never been seen before. And I think that that's, I think

Garrett Neiman:

that's one of the really interesting things about this

Garrett Neiman:

country is that, you know, America is a deeply racist and

Garrett Neiman:

anti racist country, it's a deeply sexist and anti sexist

Garrett Neiman:

country, that it's deeply egalitarian and deeply, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, struggling to be egalitarian. And so, you know, I

Garrett Neiman:

think that certainly, the movement on racial justice, the

Garrett Neiman:

last several years has been substantial. And I think, in

Garrett Neiman:

some ways, maybe more enduring than things like me, too. But

Garrett Neiman:

also, it's, it's hard to know what's going to last and, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, I, part of why I'm doing the work that I'm doing it is

Garrett Neiman:

with the hope that we can continue to drive some of that

Garrett Neiman:

progress forward.

Gary Michels:

A lot of people nowadays like to say there's no

Gary Michels:

such thing as a good billionaire. Is that really the

Gary Michels:

case? And is that really the fault of the person themselves,

Gary Michels:

or the tax system or other systems that have been built

Gary Michels:

around them?

Garrett Neiman:

You know, I really try to focus on the

Garrett Neiman:

system, not on individuals, you know, there's a lot of

Garrett Neiman:

structural factors, and you know, that we live in a very

Garrett Neiman:

economically segregated society, a very racially segregated

Garrett Neiman:

society, all of these structural reasons, the way I think about

Garrett Neiman:

it is, I really tried to step away from the notion of good or

Garrett Neiman:

good or bad, I think that is, is rooted in this, you know, kind

Garrett Neiman:

of deeply held view that you can be a good person or a bad

Garrett Neiman:

person, you know, I feel like I'm a, I'm a good person or a

Garrett Neiman:

bad person, depending on the day or depending on the moment. And

Garrett Neiman:

so what I'm interested in is, you know, instead of, I guess,

Garrett Neiman:

condemning people as bad, you know, what I'm very interested

Garrett Neiman:

in is, how do we get more people, you know, to, to take

Garrett Neiman:

more good actions, and to, to to be good, a higher percentage of

Garrett Neiman:

the time. And I think that I think anybody can do that if

Garrett Neiman:

they'd make the effort.

Gary Michels:

So we have a lot of listeners who are very

Gary Michels:

successful and might find themselves in this advantaged

Gary Michels:

position you're talking about, but also are already generous.

Gary Michels:

What can people like that do to be more sympathetic to what

Gary Michels:

you're saying?

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, I love that question. And I think

Garrett Neiman:

something that I question I spend a lot of time with wealthy

Garrett Neiman:

folks on in particular, is this question of, you know, how much

Garrett Neiman:

money is enough? It's, it's a, it's a tricky question. Because

Garrett Neiman:

what I found is, millionaires usually say, you know, that, Oh,

Garrett Neiman:

Rich is the 1%, you know, and I talked to one percenters and

Garrett Neiman:

they say that Rich is being a billionaire. And I talked to

Garrett Neiman:

billionaires, and they say, you know, being rich is Bill Gates.

Garrett Neiman:

And then if you go on the Gates Foundation website, Bill Gates

Garrett Neiman:

talks about how he doesn't have as much money as some countries.

Garrett Neiman:

And so, you know, there's this tendency to, you know, feel like

Garrett Neiman:

the answer to that question, you know, how much is enough? That

Garrett Neiman:

is, you know, always more and more and more, I think the

Garrett Neiman:

reality is that that approach is actually really constraining.

Garrett Neiman:

You know, I think a lot of folks are to why they want to become

Garrett Neiman:

wealthy is to have financial independence to feel freedom.

Garrett Neiman:

And it actually doesn't necessarily, you're not

Garrett Neiman:

necessarily that free if you're spending your whole life chasing

Garrett Neiman:

the next dollar, while you know, your your marriage is going down

Garrett Neiman:

the drain your kids aren't speaking to you, you know, that

Garrett Neiman:

you're not having an impact in the community and so forth. So

Garrett Neiman:

what does it look like? To really get clear on that

Garrett Neiman:

question, and I found that an easier version of that question

Garrett Neiman:

is, you know, do I have enough right now, you know, for folks

Garrett Neiman:

who have made a good amount of money and feel like they are

Garrett Neiman:

there, you know, what does it look like to consider the

Garrett Neiman:

possibility of, of not accumulating for further and so

Garrett Neiman:

like, I was just talking to a wealthy couple, you know, a few

Garrett Neiman:

days ago, they have about $10 million in wealth. I think, you

Garrett Neiman:

know, one of them feels strongly they have enough. The other one

Garrett Neiman:

is not quite so sure, you know, but the one who does feel sure,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, I, I've encouraged her to think about, well, what would

Garrett Neiman:

it look like to to distribute your investment returns beyond

Garrett Neiman:

your living expenses next year to not get richer next year and

Garrett Neiman:

make a much more substantial investment in communities? You

Garrett Neiman:

know, so, you know, they hold about 10 million. I think their

Garrett Neiman:

living expenses are a couple 100,000 a year, you know, and

Garrett Neiman:

they they give a little bit philanthropically, but why not

Garrett Neiman:

trying to give him 300,000 This year, that it's not, you're not

Garrett Neiman:

going to have less than you have before, you're just not going to

Garrett Neiman:

have more? And, you know, what does it look like to play around

Garrett Neiman:

with that as an experiment? And I'm not saying that everybody

Garrett Neiman:

has to do that, or they have to do that forever? But what does

Garrett Neiman:

it look like to take a pause on it continue accumulating, live

Garrett Neiman:

life differently for a little while and see, see how it goes

Garrett Neiman:

and how it feels?

Gary Michels:

That's an interesting perspective. Let's

Gary Michels:

move into legacy a little bit. What does legacy mean to you?

Garrett Neiman:

I think for me, you know, I think of there's a

Garrett Neiman:

indigenous principle called The Seven generations principle,

Garrett Neiman:

where the way the way some of these tribes who have who have

Garrett Neiman:

this belief operate is what does it look like to make decisions

Garrett Neiman:

with an eye toward how they'll impact people, seven generations

Garrett Neiman:

out? You know, so looking out 150 years, 200 years, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

what does it look like to make decisions at an individual,

Garrett Neiman:

institutional and societal level, with that viewpoint in

Garrett Neiman:

mind, and, you know, maybe that's a little abstract, but I

Garrett Neiman:

think aspirationally that's something that I take really

Garrett Neiman:

seriously. And, you know, particularly now that I'm a dad,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, I wrestle with these questions of, you know, do I,

Garrett Neiman:

you know, do I invest in maximizing the unearned

Garrett Neiman:

advantages of my son, you know, or do I invest in building a

Garrett Neiman:

society where, you know, everybody can thrive regardless

Garrett Neiman:

of what their unearned advantages are? And I think that

Garrett Neiman:

the reality is I do some about that there's, there's ways that

Garrett Neiman:

you know, that I invest in my kid in ways that I know that not

Garrett Neiman:

everyone has the opportunity to and but I'm also trying to take

Garrett Neiman:

a less myopic view than I think some folks take and really try

Garrett Neiman:

to, you know, put significant time and attention and resources

Garrett Neiman:

into, you know, how we build a just and equitable society for

Garrett Neiman:

everybody and, you know, a society that is sustainable for

Garrett Neiman:

people and planet for the long haul. And the other thing I'll

Garrett Neiman:

say about legacy is that I didn't want to things that I've

Garrett Neiman:

looked a lot at is, you know, what do people regret on their

Garrett Neiman:

deathbeds? You know, people regret things like, I wish I

Garrett Neiman:

didn't work so hard. I wish I was there more for my family and

Garrett Neiman:

friends, I wish I had the courage to do what I wanted,

Garrett Neiman:

instead of getting caught up in those those fears. There's lots

Garrett Neiman:

of ways where societal pressure actually leads many of us maybe

Garrett Neiman:

most of us toward regret. And so what does it look like to take a

Garrett Neiman:

step back and really be intentional about, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

what are the lives that we want to have, and in particular,

Garrett Neiman:

knowing that, you know, the day to day rewards of doing

Garrett Neiman:

something like, you know, having brunch with your kid, you know,

Garrett Neiman:

that that might not generate the same, you know, hit or high as

Garrett Neiman:

you know, knocking out a work deliverable. But in the long

Garrett Neiman:

run, you know, those relationships, you know, are

Garrett Neiman:

really all that matters, you know, that the material success

Garrett Neiman:

fades. And I've never heard of anybody late in life who said,

Garrett Neiman:

Gosh, I just I wish I worked more hours spent more hours at

Garrett Neiman:

the office. And so it makes me wonder if our allocations a

Garrett Neiman:

little off in our day to day.

Gary Michels:

I hear you there, I hear you. We want to finish

Gary Michels:

this interview talking about the great work that you're doing

Gary Michels:

with college spring. Tell us a little bit about that program

Gary Michels:

and the initiative and how if people wanted to help they

Gary Michels:

could.

Garrett Neiman:

College Spring as I mentioned is a program that

Garrett Neiman:

helps low income students of color prepare for the SATs and

Garrett Neiman:

become the first in their families to go to college. It's

Garrett Neiman:

a national program based in Oakland, but I think there's

Garrett Neiman:

opportunities for folks to plug in and you know, a number of

Garrett Neiman:

cities around the country. College spring has a

Garrett Neiman:

particularly big presence in California, Detroit, a few

Garrett Neiman:

cities in Texas, but you know, has presence in other places as

Garrett Neiman:

well. College spring.org is a website their liberation

Garrett Neiman:

Ventures is focused on racial justice and repair liberation

Garrett Neiman:

ventures.or. So folks who are interested in racial justice,

Garrett Neiman:

and it really how do we repair a society that has a problematic

Garrett Neiman:

history? How do we heal as a society? Liberation Metro

Garrett Neiman:

supports grassroots organizations that are wrestling

Garrett Neiman:

with those questions and trying to drive progress? And then the

Garrett Neiman:

last thing I would say about my current work is that I'm very

Garrett Neiman:

interested then being a resource for wealthy white folks and rich

Garrett Neiman:

white men in particular who are trying to advance equity and

Garrett Neiman:

social justice and live their lives in this meaningful

Garrett Neiman:

multigenerational lens. So, Garrettneiman.com, GA R R E TT

Garrett Neiman:

neiman.com, which is the book website, there's a contact form,

Garrett Neiman:

I would love for anybody to reach out to me. And I'd be

Garrett Neiman:

happy to available to anyone personally on this podcast, who

Garrett Neiman:

wants to engage further.

Gary Michels:

Awesome. Well, Garrett, I really thank you for

Gary Michels:

your time today, you're certainly given some perspective

Gary Michels:

to people that are wealthy, you've given some perspective to

Gary Michels:

people that maybe aren't at that wealth level yet, but want to be

Gary Michels:

and how they can make a difference in this world. You

Gary Michels:

touched some different things that everybody could benefit from.

Garrett Neiman:

Yeah, I enjoyed that. Thank you, Gary. This is

Garrett Neiman:

great. And yeah, Gary, thank you for the work that you do. It's

Garrett Neiman:

it's cool that you found this way to bind you know, that when

Garrett Neiman:

people are looking at their long term decisions through life

Garrett Neiman:

insurance and so forth, that that's an avenue to having some

Garrett Neiman:

of these deeper conversations about our long term life

Garrett Neiman:

decisions. I think that's awesome. I wish more people

Garrett Neiman:

would would do that. So thank you. Appreciate it.

Show artwork for Let's Talk Legacy

About the Podcast

Let's Talk Legacy
Presented by Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group
What does it mean to build and maintain a legacy, either in business, or for your loved ones? What tools and resources are available to help? Join the discussion as host Gary Michels, along with exciting guests and real listeners just like you, tackle the answers to these questions, and learn how to grow today, for a better tomorrow.



Southwestern/Great American, Inc., dba Southwestern Family of Companies, for itself and its related entities and their assigns, reserves and retains all rights to their copyrighted materials and trademarks contained in this podcast. Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group is an affiliate of Family First Life.
Support This Show