Episode 61

full
Published on:

15th Jan 2025

The Enduring Enterprise Pt. 1, with Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg

Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg, the Managing Partner and co-founder respectively of Lansberg Gersick Advisors, run down their new book, THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions, including info on why family businesses are more resilient than others, managing risk, balancing identity and change, managing continuity vs growth, and why stability is a double-edged sword.

Transcript
Gary Michels:

Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy. I'm your host, Gary

Gary Michels:

Michels and I am excited today about our show and the guests

Gary Michels:

that we have for you. Ivan Lansberg is the co founder of

Gary Michels:

Landsberg Gersick Advisors, and Devin DeCiantis is the Managing

Gary Michels:

Partner. LGA serves as a trusted advisory and education partner

Gary Michels:

to the world's leading family enterprises, and they've

Gary Michels:

recently released the book The Enduring Enterprise, How Family

Gary Michels:

Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions. Welcome to the show,

Gary Michels:

you guys.

Devin DeCiantis:

Thanks so much for having us, Gary.

Gary Michels:

So can you each give us a little bit of a

Gary Michels:

rundown on your backgrounds and also on the work that you do at

Gary Michels:

Lansberg Gersick Advisors?

Devin DeCiantis:

Sure, I'll dive in first. I've been fascinated

Devin DeCiantis:

by this topic of family business ever since I met Ivan nearly 20

Devin DeCiantis:

years ago, and he introduced me to this new species of private

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprise that nobody ever taught me about business school,

Devin DeCiantis:

but that I have since come to understand is the dominant form

Devin DeCiantis:

of capitalism around the world, which has been a terrific

Devin DeCiantis:

journey for me. And I was instantly inspired by their

Devin DeCiantis:

longer term planning horizons, their deep commitment to

Devin DeCiantis:

stakeholders and communities, their strong emphasis on family

Devin DeCiantis:

values and organizational culture, and as a reformed

Devin DeCiantis:

investment banker, I was also really impressed by how they

Devin DeCiantis:

tend to outperform non family businesses over the longer run

Devin DeCiantis:

and over the years of our work together, advising enterprising

Devin DeCiantis:

families around the world, along with our team, our travels have

Devin DeCiantis:

taken us to some of the most affluent and stable countries,

Devin DeCiantis:

like the US, of course, but also some truly exotic and volatile

Devin DeCiantis:

places. And in recent years, we've actually turned our

Devin DeCiantis:

academic lens to studying some of those differences, the

Devin DeCiantis:

differences between these contexts, and quickly discovered

Devin DeCiantis:

that at Frontier family firms take a very different approach

Devin DeCiantis:

to managing risk given their long history of navigating these

Devin DeCiantis:

kinds of moments of uncertainty, and as a result, they tend to

Devin DeCiantis:

prioritize a different set of strategic objectives, for

Devin DeCiantis:

instance, resilience rather than growth, which is the opposite of

Devin DeCiantis:

what often gets taught in most western business schools and

Devin DeCiantis:

gets practiced in most western boardrooms and and that's the

Devin DeCiantis:

counterintuitive notion that became the foundation for this

Devin DeCiantis:

book and for subsequent research, and which we're

Devin DeCiantis:

excited to talk to you about here today.

Ivan Lansberg:

So for me, the topic is very personal. I grew

Ivan Lansberg:

up in Venezuela. I'm the son of an entrepreneur, and witness up

Ivan Lansberg:

close the difficulties of not just building an enterprise, but

Ivan Lansberg:

actually transferring an enterprise from one generation

Ivan Lansberg:

to the next in a context that's sort of falling apart. So I went

Ivan Lansberg:

to graduate school here. I My first job was at the Yale School

Ivan Lansberg:

of Management, and when I got to Yale, I began to get interested

Ivan Lansberg:

in basically two questions. You know? Why, if succession

Ivan Lansberg:

planning, for example, or continuity planning, as we call

Ivan Lansberg:

it, is so obvious, why is that so few people do it? And the

Ivan Lansberg:

second question really had to do with what can be done? You know,

Ivan Lansberg:

what can we how can we mobilize the internal resources of an

Ivan Lansberg:

enterprise and of a family to be able to get them to do the, you

Ivan Lansberg:

know, take the steps they need to take in order to continue the

Ivan Lansberg:

enterprise that they work so hard to build.

Gary Michels:

I think it's interesting this topic. How did

Gary Michels:

the two of you guys start working together and start

Gary Michels:

collaborating? I'm curious.

Devin DeCiantis:

There's actually a family story there

Devin DeCiantis:

too, Gary, and it's this concept of families of choice, so to

Devin DeCiantis:

speak, the familial networks that end up combining and

Devin DeCiantis:

uniting disparate tribes into this fabric of of trust. I went

Devin DeCiantis:

to grad school with Yvonne son. In fact, we're roommates, and so

Devin DeCiantis:

for many years, would spend American Thanksgiving with Ivan

Devin DeCiantis:

and his family as a Canadian, didn't have much to do that

Devin DeCiantis:

weekend, and began to embrace that tradition as a byproduct of

Devin DeCiantis:

socializing with with Dan and Ivan and their wonderful family.

Devin DeCiantis:

And it wasn't until years later, over casual conversations, that

Devin DeCiantis:

we first began to explore the possibility of training some

Devin DeCiantis:

some of my consultative interests, training that lens in

Devin DeCiantis:

the world of family enterprise, and I couldn't have asked for a

Devin DeCiantis:

better friend and mentor and partner in that journey.

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, no. I mean, I think we also share an

Ivan Lansberg:

interest in economic development. Devin comes from a

Ivan Lansberg:

sort of blended Lebanese and Italian background, and in my

Ivan Lansberg:

case, my father was Dutch. That's why my name is not

Ivan Lansberg:

particularly Latin sounding. So it was a joy to collaborate with

Ivan Lansberg:

Devin and find, you know, common interests around this, you know.

Ivan Lansberg:

So we put Thanksgiving to good use.

Gary Michels:

I love it. So I know you guys are aware that our

Gary Michels:

shows about legacy, I know that's a big part of the work

Gary Michels:

that you guys do, and one of the best. Examples of creating and

Gary Michels:

passing on a legacy is family businesses, as we're discussing

Gary Michels:

here, and you say that family businesses are actually much

Gary Michels:

more resilient and enduring on a worldwide level than other types

Gary Michels:

of businesses, and can withstand more turbulent conditions.

Gary Michels:

Before we go into why that is, if you could lay out what some

Gary Michels:

of the most common threats are that usually topple businesses

Gary Michels:

and and why resilience is important.

Devin DeCiantis:

Absolutely Gary, in fact, what's

Devin DeCiantis:

fascinating is in family businesses and non family

Devin DeCiantis:

businesses, our attention almost always immediately focuses in on

Devin DeCiantis:

on business oriented risks, operational risk, security risk,

Devin DeCiantis:

safety risk, reputational risk, compliant risks. But it's only

Devin DeCiantis:

this sort of the second order reflections that get us to

Devin DeCiantis:

thinking more about things like ineffective governance or asset

Devin DeCiantis:

concentration, where, in the case of family businesses,

Devin DeCiantis:

disengagement and dependence and death and divorce and a whole

Devin DeCiantis:

bunch of other DS and so forth, that could very easily derail an

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprising family in its quest for legacy, but which are

Devin DeCiantis:

obvious if you pay enough attention to them, and which can

Devin DeCiantis:

be attended to proactively.

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, for us, the issue of continuity is really

Ivan Lansberg:

quite important because it often is a key priority. Enterprising

Ivan Lansberg:

families make decisions not just for themselves, but for their

Ivan Lansberg:

kids and for their grandkids even. So they have a as Devon

Ivan Lansberg:

suggested, a long term horizon in terms of the choices and

Ivan Lansberg:

priorities that they that they make. So it is critical.

Gary Michels:

Talk a little bit more about risk. It's such a

Gary Michels:

powerful one word, and you just throw out there several

Gary Michels:

different areas of a business where there's risk.

Devin DeCiantis:

Oh, it's, it's absolutely essential for a

Devin DeCiantis:

variety of reasons. One is, it's, it's a critical function

Devin DeCiantis:

of any any enduring enterprise, any organization that aspires to

Devin DeCiantis:

continuity, ought to attend to the things that could derail its

Devin DeCiantis:

success. So the the real challenge of of managing risk is

Devin DeCiantis:

essentially predicting and preempting crises, enduring them

Devin DeCiantis:

effectively as quickly as one can, and bouncing back quickly,

Devin DeCiantis:

and in that moment, reviewing and reflecting on what worked,

Devin DeCiantis:

what went well, what didn't, so that when we bump into the next

Devin DeCiantis:

risk, we have a bit of a playbook. And so in a way, you

Devin DeCiantis:

can call risk management is, in a way, it's crisis prevention or

Devin DeCiantis:

preparation and crisis recovery. It's the it's the thoughtful,

Devin DeCiantis:

proactive, pragmatic, strategic approach to containing crises

Devin DeCiantis:

which inevitably occur and and allowing an organization to

Devin DeCiantis:

better metabolize those moments and escape on the other side,

Devin DeCiantis:

possibly even better off than when they entered it.

Gary Michels:

You're talking a lot about risk management here.

Gary Michels:

Where does taking risks come into play? Because no risk, no

Gary Michels:

reward. We've heard that before, right? Do you see a difference

Gary Michels:

in a family run business than maybe not, a family run

Gary Michels:

business, and how they take those risks?

Devin DeCiantis:

It's a terrific question. In fact, what we see

Devin DeCiantis:

is a distribution of risk appetite across all of humanity.

Devin DeCiantis:

You know, if you were to gather any number of humans, we've done

Devin DeCiantis:

this countless times in classrooms and in large group

Devin DeCiantis:

settings. And you sort of, you ask, you know, on a scale of one

Devin DeCiantis:

to 10, where does everybody's risk appetite play out from

Devin DeCiantis:

absolutely none, never to, you know, put all the money on black

Devin DeCiantis:

and roll the roulette reel, and you'll find that there's, in

Devin DeCiantis:

fact, a pretty normal distribution across human beings

Devin DeCiantis:

as it relates to their risk appetite. You'll find that

Devin DeCiantis:

entrepreneurs tend to skew a little more toward the risk

Devin DeCiantis:

seeking behavior, maybe even excessively, so, some might

Devin DeCiantis:

argue, and taking on those risks, but that's part of the

Devin DeCiantis:

entrepreneurial spark that that is so catalytic in in a in a

Devin DeCiantis:

free market, in our modern economy, and yet that same

Devin DeCiantis:

impulse can get you into trouble if you're taking on too much

Devin DeCiantis:

risk, especially when you're when you're anchoring or

Devin DeCiantis:

tethering The risk appetite of the organization to a single

Devin DeCiantis:

individual, and not necessarily reflecting the distribution of

Devin DeCiantis:

appetite and the capacity to bear that risk across the entire

Devin DeCiantis:

system. And we, we talk a lot about that in the book as well.

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah and one of the things that's unique about

Ivan Lansberg:

families is trying, particularly families that endure as business

Ivan Lansberg:

families, is finding an optimal balance between tradition and

Ivan Lansberg:

change, basically between being able to harness their identity,

Ivan Lansberg:

the way they do things, their connections, their resources,

Ivan Lansberg:

while at the same time being conscious that with every

Ivan Lansberg:

generation, you have to innovate if you're going to stay in

Ivan Lansberg:

business, right? So being able, and obviously, sometimes within

Ivan Lansberg:

the same generation, given the pace of change that we're

Ivan Lansberg:

experiencing, striking a balance between those two is a real

Ivan Lansberg:

skill, and enduring enterprises managed to do that very well.

Ivan Lansberg:

You know, families can get very caught into. You know, very

Ivan Lansberg:

caught up in into what they've done, and continue to try and do

Ivan Lansberg:

it forever, but that that never quite does well.

Gary Michels:

So we often talk about a concept called SWOT

Gary Michels:

analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunity and threats. Do you

Gary Michels:

guys see that family businesses tend to do a better job at that

Gary Michels:

analyzation of that, are they more resilient than a typical

Gary Michels:

business that isn't tied together by family ties?

Devin DeCiantis:

We'll say that enterprising families that we've

Devin DeCiantis:

met, especially the ones that we've studied, that end up

Devin DeCiantis:

standing the test of time, tend to be more attuned to the

Devin DeCiantis:

threats, certainly, even perhaps more so then the opportunities,

Devin DeCiantis:

not that they both aren't important to your point earlier.

Devin DeCiantis:

You know, without taking on risk there, there can be no reward.

Devin DeCiantis:

But enterprising families that succeed over the long term tend

Devin DeCiantis:

to be or let's say, prioritized managing the downside risk more

Devin DeCiantis:

so than they would prioritize chasing the upside. It's one of

Devin DeCiantis:

the key differentiators between family controlled companies and

Devin DeCiantis:

non family controlled companies, and that manifests in their long

Devin DeCiantis:

term out performance. In fact, a lot of really terrific research

Devin DeCiantis:

has been conducted that has demonstrated that, you know, up

Devin DeCiantis:

to a third of all long term out performance is that the

Devin DeCiantis:

contribution to that out performance comes from how an

Devin DeCiantis:

organization manages through crisis. Because when you're

Devin DeCiantis:

managing over 25 year cycles or 50 year cycles, crises are

Devin DeCiantis:

inevitable, sure, and it's how they respond in those moments

Devin DeCiantis:

that actually lead to their long term out performance. They they

Devin DeCiantis:

understand that this is a marathon, not a sprint, and they

Devin DeCiantis:

manage their resourcing accordingly.

Ivan Lansberg:

I mean, it takes a mindset of of continuity,

Ivan Lansberg:

rather than of growth. That continuity, in and of itself, is

Ivan Lansberg:

a worthy goal to pursue. Obviously, you need to grow if

Ivan Lansberg:

you're going to be, you know, viable in the markets in which

Ivan Lansberg:

you operate. But how you grow matters if you're if you're

Ivan Lansberg:

making decisions like many public companies do, you know,

Ivan Lansberg:

quarter by quarter. If that's your focus and all of your

Ivan Lansberg:

incentives are wired to short term results, then your ability

Ivan Lansberg:

to not lose sight of the long term gets compromised.

Gary Michels:

Right. Well, most of our listeners are located in

Gary Michels:

the United States, which you would consider United States an

Gary Michels:

advanced economy, and that sounds like a good thing, but

Gary Michels:

you say that can actually often mean people are less equipped to

Gary Michels:

deal with the uncertainty or crisis. Can you explain that?

Devin DeCiantis:

Yeah. Thank you, Gary for pointing that out.

Devin DeCiantis:

It was one of the big counter intuitive insights that, for

Devin DeCiantis:

that emerged from from our early work and study of this that

Devin DeCiantis:

stability is, in fact, a double edged sword, while it can foster

Devin DeCiantis:

prosperity and that predictability can allow you to

Devin DeCiantis:

deploy capital with more confidence, it can also lead to

Devin DeCiantis:

complacency and to a lack of preparedness. And advanced

Devin DeCiantis:

economies, for instance, have enjoyed a period of stability

Devin DeCiantis:

that has led to some immense prosperity, but in the absence

Devin DeCiantis:

of any extended periods of uncertainty or crisis, they tend

Devin DeCiantis:

to lack resilience. If you look back across the long, sweeping

Devin DeCiantis:

arc of history, there's been a more or less 80 year period, a

Devin DeCiantis:

golden age of stability, one might argue, that began after

Devin DeCiantis:

the Second World War, and has led up until the last you know,

Devin DeCiantis:

10 years or so, and it's only now, literally a lifetime ago,

Devin DeCiantis:

that leaders are having to confront the kind of, you know,

Devin DeCiantis:

sudden and unexpected regime change or shifts in policy or

Devin DeCiantis:

macroeconomic conditions, inflation and so forth, that

Devin DeCiantis:

have been, you know, that Haven't persisted for a

Devin DeCiantis:

generation, and so we don't have the muscle memory for how to

Devin DeCiantis:

deal with that. You contrast that with Frontier economies,

Devin DeCiantis:

where they understand intuitively that building

Devin DeCiantis:

resilience is essential for survival and success, because

Devin DeCiantis:

they have to deal with this not once every 25 years, but you

Devin DeCiantis:

know, once every 25 minutes.

Ivan Lansberg:

Well, you're putting your finger on something

Ivan Lansberg:

really important there Gary, because it's one of the

Ivan Lansberg:

counterintuitive things about the book, is that advanced

Ivan Lansberg:

economies in general, but businesses operating in advanced

Ivan Lansberg:

economies have something to learn from the way businesses,

Ivan Lansberg:

and particularly family businesses, operate in frontier

Ivan Lansberg:

markets, right? You know, there's an analogy that we use,

Ivan Lansberg:

that I think sort of works very well for this. There's some

Ivan Lansberg:

research in biology that the closer you live to a developed

Ivan Lansberg:

health system, the weaker your immune system is. It's sort of

Ivan Lansberg:

the organizational analog of that very construct we begin to

Ivan Lansberg:

take for granted all of the things that we have, the

Ivan Lansberg:

institutional frameworks, the markets, the regulatory systems

Ivan Lansberg:

that provide law and order and so forth and so on and and

Ivan Lansberg:

before you know it, you you know you just assume that that's the

Ivan Lansberg:

way life is. All of a sudden you get something like COVID come in

Ivan Lansberg:

and. And then it turns your world upside down and and you

Ivan Lansberg:

know, for for family enterprises that succeed over generations in

Ivan Lansberg:

volatile environments, that's just a way of life. It's

Ivan Lansberg:

chronic. It's not episodic.

Gary Michels:

Right. I always ask when I have our guests on a

Gary Michels:

question of the research and the work that you guys are doing,

Gary Michels:

how does it impact anybody? Because there's people that are

Gary Michels:

going to hop on to this podcast and they're going to go, that's

Gary Michels:

really interesting about family businesses, and there's other

Gary Michels:

people that are going to go, I don't have a family business. Or

Gary Michels:

how does that affect me? And I wanted to ask you guys why it

Gary Michels:

does matter?

Devin DeCiantis:

Absolutely. Well, I mean, your podcast is

Devin DeCiantis:

oriented around the concept of legacy. And so you know, if you

Devin DeCiantis:

if you look to some of the longest surviving enterprises in

Devin DeCiantis:

the world, that family businesses are

Devin DeCiantis:

disproportionately represented in any list of those, whether

Devin DeCiantis:

it's, you know, Google the world's oldest family

Devin DeCiantis:

businesses, or you look up communities like Les Zeno quien,

Devin DeCiantis:

which are a community the worldwide of family businesses

Devin DeCiantis:

who have all been around for at least 200 years. I mean that

Devin DeCiantis:

family even in the books of Jim Collins and porous A Good to

Devin DeCiantis:

Great and built to last and so forth, family enterprises are

Devin DeCiantis:

disproportionately represented among the samples of businesses

Devin DeCiantis:

that are seen as the as the sort of the gold standard for for

Devin DeCiantis:

continuity, for standing the tests of time. And that's

Devin DeCiantis:

despite the fact that corporate life spans have been shrinking

Devin DeCiantis:

for the better part of the last century that the in the context

Devin DeCiantis:

within which all businesses taking place has become more

Devin DeCiantis:

dynamic and complex and more challenging to navigate, and so

Devin DeCiantis:

for for enterprising family to be able to demonstrate an

Devin DeCiantis:

organizational solution that involves the transference of

Devin DeCiantis:

power, of leadership, of of of control, of wealth, of culture

Devin DeCiantis:

and values and so forth across generations is is truly

Devin DeCiantis:

something that Non family businesses would ignore at their

Devin DeCiantis:

own peril, and that family businesses can look to in the

Devin DeCiantis:

case of many of the cases that we feature in the book as

Devin DeCiantis:

exemplars of what what one could do and embrace within your

Devin DeCiantis:

organization in order to achieve continuity, assuming, of course,

Devin DeCiantis:

that's something that's that's of interest to you.

Ivan Lansberg:

One other comment I would make in terms of what's

Ivan Lansberg:

what's applicable, we've already rattled off a few. You know, the

Ivan Lansberg:

long term view, the fact that family businesses managed to

Ivan Lansberg:

bring together three constituencies that need to be

Ivan Lansberg:

managed on an ongoing basis, the owners, the family itself, and

Ivan Lansberg:

the managers and executives and employees that work in the

Ivan Lansberg:

company, those three constituencies need to be

Ivan Lansberg:

harnessed to move in a common direction, and there is a real

Ivan Lansberg:

skill in managing those stakeholders in a coherent way,

Ivan Lansberg:

and that's where governance come in, which we talk about

Ivan Lansberg:

extensively in the book. But beyond that, family companies, I

Ivan Lansberg:

think, are wonderful laboratories for learning how to

Ivan Lansberg:

deal with paradoxes, you know. So you know, how do you how do

Ivan Lansberg:

you deploy nepotism and excellence at the same time? How

Ivan Lansberg:

do you long term at the same time, while you're managing, you

Ivan Lansberg:

know, trying to be expedient and responsive to the demands of the

Ivan Lansberg:

market? How do you think you know? How do you develop big

Ivan Lansberg:

dreams, but yet attach them to deadlines and not hold

Ivan Lansberg:

yourselves accountable to those big dreams? These are very

Ivan Lansberg:

powerful ideas, and that's one of the reasons why we wanted to

Ivan Lansberg:

document them and provide ample examples of families that do

Ivan Lansberg:

this well. And you know, our aspiration, our conviction is

Ivan Lansberg:

that these ideas are actually transferable to people who are

Ivan Lansberg:

not in family businesses. Let me just make a caveat there,

Ivan Lansberg:

because a lot of it single entrepreneurs are just family

Ivan Lansberg:

businesses in waiting, essentially, if you succeed

Ivan Lansberg:

right, and you build some wealth through your family through the

Ivan Lansberg:

enterprise, you very quickly are going to bump up against the

Ivan Lansberg:

issue, who do I leave things to? What do I do with it? And

Ivan Lansberg:

clarifying that fundamental question of what is your purpose

Ivan Lansberg:

and why are you in business together is one of the key

Ivan Lansberg:

things that we find family enterprises that endure and

Ivan Lansberg:

really invest some energy?

Gary Michels:

Yeah, well, you include some really powerful

Gary Michels:

real world examples in the book, including stories about family

Gary Michels:

businesses in Peru, Korea and Syria that all found ways to

Gary Michels:

flourish in times of hardship. Could you share a few of those,

Gary Michels:

or even a specific company in the United States that you saw

Gary Michels:

that I'm having some challenges, and with working with you guys

Gary Michels:

and kind of, kind of collaborating, there was some

Gary Michels:

growth there?

Devin DeCiantis:

I'd love to share an American example, or a

Devin DeCiantis:

series of American examples, just to provide some of the

Devin DeCiantis:

context and in the US you mentioned it earlier. Gary, we

Devin DeCiantis:

consider this to be, of course, not just us, but most of.

Devin DeCiantis:

Economist an advanced economy, it is sophisticated, it's

Devin DeCiantis:

complex. It's for the most part, post industrial and that means

Devin DeCiantis:

that there are a lot of institutional stabilizers out

Devin DeCiantis:

there. There are a lot of market mechanisms to provide access to

Devin DeCiantis:

capital and so forth. But that wasn't always the case. You

Devin DeCiantis:

know, we gotta, we don't have to look that far into history to

Devin DeCiantis:

recognize that at one point, the American economy was an emerging

Devin DeCiantis:

economy, and at one point before that, a frontier economy, truly

Devin DeCiantis:

a frontier economy. And in all the ways that we might look to

Devin DeCiantis:

Venezuela or Nigeria or Yemen or Syria and so forth today, and so

Devin DeCiantis:

if you look back in the annals of American history, many of the

Devin DeCiantis:

iconic family businesses that are around today were forged in

Devin DeCiantis:

the crucibles of crises, as it were, you know that the Marriott

Devin DeCiantis:

family enterprise was built, essentially was launched during

Devin DeCiantis:

the Great Depression as a as a root beer stand, attending to

Devin DeCiantis:

the needs of of the displaced during the Great Depression.

Devin DeCiantis:

You've got organizations like Cargill and Mars that were

Devin DeCiantis:

founded in the 18th century, during a time of tremendous

Devin DeCiantis:

industrial upheaval and structural disarray, and yet

Devin DeCiantis:

they are now among some of the largest businesses in the world.

Devin DeCiantis:

And so, you know, in the American example, we don't have

Devin DeCiantis:

as many in the book that are based in sort of the modern

Devin DeCiantis:

experience of what it's like to operate in the US, because,

Devin DeCiantis:

frankly, the the investments in institutional stability have

Devin DeCiantis:

been made so that companies don't have to attend to all of

Devin DeCiantis:

these and invest in all these risks. They can just focus on

Devin DeCiantis:

the unbridled pursuit of profit. But you don't have to go back

Devin DeCiantis:

all that far. In fact, you know only about 100 years or so to

Devin DeCiantis:

realize that so much of of American capitalism was built in

Devin DeCiantis:

these more frontier conditions, and it's part of what created a

Devin DeCiantis:

lot of that early dynamism that led it to become one of the

Devin DeCiantis:

leading countries in the world.

Ivan Lansberg:

And today, you see, you know, the beginnings of

Ivan Lansberg:

some destabilizing elements in American you know, society in

Ivan Lansberg:

general, but the economy, the economy in particular, where,

Ivan Lansberg:

again, part of our message through the book is to alert

Ivan Lansberg:

leaders not to take those institutional stabilizers for

Ivan Lansberg:

granted.

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About the Podcast

Let's Talk Legacy
Presented by Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group
What does it mean to build and maintain a legacy, either in business, or for your loved ones? What tools and resources are available to help? Join the discussion along with exciting guests and real listeners just like you, to tackle the answers to these questions, and learn how to grow today, for a better tomorrow.



Southwestern/Great American, Inc., dba Southwestern Family of Companies, for itself and its related entities and their assigns, reserves and retains all rights to their copyrighted materials and trademarks contained in this podcast. Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group is an affiliate of Family First Life.
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