Episode 53

full
Published on:

18th Sep 2024

Woman of Many Names, with Debra Yates

Author Debra Yates shares the details of her book, "Woman of Many Names", about an important woman in Native American history, her seventh-great-grandmother, Nancy Ward. Hear how Ward's life marked the fulfillment of a long-foretold prophecy, and about her connections to King George II, Daniel Boone, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, the Mayflower, and the Salem Witch Trials.

Transcript
Gary Michels:

Welcome to Let's Talk Legacy. I'm your host, Gary

Gary Michels:

Michels. And today we have a wonderful guest, Debra Yates,

Gary Michels:

she's an official member of the Cherokee Nation has written a

Gary Michels:

book woman of many names about an important woman in Native

Gary Michels:

American history. Nancy Ward. So let's dig in here. And the story

Gary Michels:

behind how this book came about is very interesting. You weren't

Gary Michels:

really even intending to write a book at all, can you tell us

Gary Michels:

what you were doing before and how this whole thing came

Gary Michels:

together?

Debra Yates:

Well, the stories I'd heard as a young child

Debra Yates:

always infatuated me, when I found out we were Native

Debra Yates:

American, it was, you know, hidden from us for a really long

Debra Yates:

time, because of, you know, the prejudice that was around in the

Debra Yates:

early 1900s. and stuff. So when my grandfather left the

Debra Yates:

reservation, the nation and everybody knew he was a Native

Debra Yates:

American, and, you know, the prejudice continued, and so on,

Debra Yates:

and so forth. And then in the 30s, I want to say it was like

Debra Yates:

39, or 40, they decided to move to Ohio, you know, it was a

Debra Yates:

concerted effort. At that point, it was decided that they were

Debra Yates:

not going to tell anybody that they were American Indian,

Debra Yates:

because times were were different. So, you know, I

Debra Yates:

thought, you know, I'm getting old, and, you know, my

Debra Yates:

grandparents are dead, all his brothers and sisters are, were

Debra Yates:

gone. But one and I thought, you know, I need to write these

Debra Yates:

things down. Because, you know, the kids are so young. And, you

Debra Yates:

know, the grandkids didn't seem too interested. But I hope that

Debra Yates:

maybe the great grandkids would be in the legacy, that and the

Debra Yates:

blood that runs within them, because everything had to happen

Debra Yates:

just the way it did, in order for there to be an us.

Gary Michels:

So tell us a little bit about Nancy Ward,

Gary Michels:

when she lived, what the state of the Cherokee Nation was doing

Gary Michels:

during that time and how she was seen amongst her contemporaries.

Debra Yates:

Well, when she was born, it was you know, the, you

Debra Yates:

know, the 1740s. You know, every move you made, every breath you

Debra Yates:

took, there was danger all around. And her birth had been

Debra Yates:

foretold, there was a prophecy that there would be a girl child

Debra Yates:

born to the wolf clan, that would rise to lead her people to

Debra Yates:

greatness, you know, they were kind of waiting on that prophecy

Debra Yates:

to be fulfilled, I would say, then, at a very young age,

Debra Yates:

things started happening around around Nonya, he that signaled

Debra Yates:

that she might very well be that child. So as she was being

Debra Yates:

brought up in the Cherokee culture, of course, you know,

Debra Yates:

it's oral tradition, it's a lot of talk. And it's a lot of

Debra Yates:

telling the stories and between each other, not writing them

Debra Yates:

down, when, you know, she became of age, you know, they knew that

Debra Yates:

she was the fulfilling of that legend that, that it was her.

Debra Yates:

And so she was taught from a very young age, you know, things

Debra Yates:

that maybe most girls wouldn't be in on being taught, you know,

Debra Yates:

different languages. She had an aunt Her name was Lucy Ward,

Debra Yates:

that was a lady in waiting to King George the second wife, who

Debra Yates:

fell in love without conosco when he went to visit England on

Debra Yates:

a ship called the fox with his brother, adequate Nicola, and

Debra Yates:

she came home with him became his wife, but she looked Nancy,

Debra Yates:

kind of like she was around, you know, Prodigy to help, you know,

Debra Yates:

teach things to and, you know, the smarter than she was the

Debra Yates:

better chance that number one that she was survived. And, you

Debra Yates:

know, the country was being invaded from basically

Debra Yates:

everywhere, the English, the Spanish, you know, everybody

Debra Yates:

wanted a piece of America. They wanted the wood, they wanted the

Debra Yates:

minerals, they wanted everything that they could glean from from

Debra Yates:

these lands, and they didn't care who they had to take it

Debra Yates:

from in order to do such she was just born at the right time and

Debra Yates:

in the right place. And, you know, she knew, you know, the

Debra Yates:

likes of Daniel Boone and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin

Debra Yates:

and, you know, chased around a desperate to, and George

Debra Yates:

Washington as well.

Gary Michels:

So she had ties with Daniel Boone?

Debra Yates:

Oh, yes. Nancy sold Kentucky to the Transylvania

Debra Yates:

company who Daniel Boone was a representative for, they had, I

Debra Yates:

think, a really good relationship and they were able

Debra Yates:

to hammer out the sale of of literally a state. That was our

Debra Yates:

hunting grounds. You know, we kind of traversed up into Ohio,

Debra Yates:

you know, which means beautiful river and Kentucky and we were

Debra Yates:

from to Tennessee. But Daniel Boone, they gave him a choice,

Debra Yates:

he could either take money or he could have land for his role

Debra Yates:

that he played and selling Kentucky after the United States

Debra Yates:

was formed, they actually seize those lands back back from

Debra Yates:

Daniel, it royally upset him and he moved away. You know, he just

Debra Yates:

didn't take a shine to what he considered his assets being, you

Debra Yates:

know, taken from him.

Gary Michels:

But she was connected with all these

Gary Michels:

presidents and famous people. Well, how how did she get that

Gary Michels:

much stature?

Debra Yates:

Well, she was negotiating lots of treaties she

Debra Yates:

negotiated, you know, with different tribes throughout the

Debra Yates:

Northeast that allowed, you know, George Washington actually

Debra Yates:

to move freely through those lands. Had those treaties not

Debra Yates:

been set in place, you know, we would have been a warring

Debra Yates:

fraction, you know, with the early colonialist, I kind of,

Debra Yates:

you know, went back and forth with the Smithsonian Institute,

Debra Yates:

saying that, you know, I couldn't prove that Nancy Ward

Debra Yates:

knew George Washington. I said, Well, we can we know that she

Debra Yates:

wrote him letters, they're almost illegible, they're

Debra Yates:

basically illegible, but it's from her to President

Debra Yates:

Washington. And one of those letters was actually found in

Debra Yates:

Thomas Jefferson's desk when it went to be refurbished. I want

Debra Yates:

to say back in the 60s, that letter was, you know, found in

Debra Yates:

his desk.

Gary Michels:

Well it's rumored that she even once saved

Gary Michels:

Washington's life. Tell me about that.

Debra Yates:

Well, that was through the power of

Debra Yates:

negotiation. There were, you know, fractions at war with

Debra Yates:

different tribes, you know, they were not pleased with the white

Debra Yates:

man taking over our lands that we, you know, lived on for 1000s

Debra Yates:

and 1000s of years. So you know, that in that way alone, we're

Debra Yates:

sure that she, you know, saved his party his life from

Debra Yates:

traversing around.

Gary Michels:

We're told that there's even a connection

Gary Michels:

between Nancy and the King of England.

Debra Yates:

Well, that's more the Lucy Ward's part in the

Debra Yates:

story at Akula Kula, who was the police chief, during, you know,

Debra Yates:

Nancy's younger days, who was her uncle, O'Connor, Stowe was

Debra Yates:

the war chief. Those two traveled to England and carried

Debra Yates:

a raccoon cat that Matoi sent to King George the second. And when

Debra Yates:

he received that he called it the crown of Tennessee.

Gary Michels:

Just there was so many ties to so many people that

Gary Michels:

she knew and had an effect on in our company, Southwestern Legacy

Gary Michels:

Insurance Group. We're headquartered in Tennessee, and

Gary Michels:

there's a connection between Nancy in the state of Tennessee

Gary Michels:

also isn't there.

Debra Yates:

Huge, huge. Of course, that's where she was

Debra Yates:

born. She was born I would say, like, probably about 40 miles 50

Debra Yates:

miles south of Knoxville. She is buried. Now her final resting

Debra Yates:

place is just south of a little town called Benton, Tennessee.

Debra Yates:

She parlayed with general severe multiple times. At one point he

Debra Yates:

had her held captive. And he wrote a letter to Thomas

Debra Yates:

Jefferson. And he says, What should I do with Nancy Ward?

Debra Yates:

What do you want me to do with this woman? Technically, she

Debra Yates:

should have been killed. And he sent severe a letter back. And

Debra Yates:

he said to ask Nancy board, what he should do with her, and then

Debra Yates:

follow her directions, chose Dory. So he let her go at 1.1 of

Debra Yates:

his generals underneath severe General Joseph Martin was

Debra Yates:

married to one of his daughters, so to Betsy Ward, so I'm sure

Debra Yates:

that there was a lot of unraveling to be done. Just

Debra Yates:

think of all these people that she knew. And that admired her

Debra Yates:

she went to the Moravian missionary place. And, you know,

Debra Yates:

they wrote about her and in their writings, my family from

Debra Yates:

my father's side, who was not Native American, came from

Debra Yates:

England, and they were Brainerd, and they opened the missionary

Debra Yates:

just outside of Chattanooga called the Brainerd mission. So

Debra Yates:

to put it in perspective, my father's family was helping my

Debra Yates:

mother's family in the 17 and 1800s. Now is that not just

Debra Yates:

crazy?

Gary Michels:

Small world. So you know the name of our show is

Gary Michels:

Let's Talk Legacy. But and legacy is just a big important

Gary Michels:

part to us about what are you leaving behind for future

Gary Michels:

generations and memories and everything about legacy? What

Gary Michels:

does legacy mean to you, I can see that you the way you tell

Gary Michels:

this story. You have so much passion and to know the facts

Gary Michels:

and names and stories of things that happen 200, 300, 400 years

Gary Michels:

ago...

Debra Yates:

And we can back it up even further than that,

Debra Yates:

because through my grandmother's side, Nancy Ward side summer,

Debra Yates:

somebody ended up marrying one of the descendants of the

Debra Yates:

Mayflower. You know, in the Salem witch trials, I had a

Debra Yates:

grandmother that was howling in the Salem witch trials. And two,

Debra Yates:

three years later, they declared her innocent of being a witch

Debra Yates:

you know.

Gary Michels:

So what does legacy mean to you?

Debra Yates:

It's everything. We are our legacy. We are our

Debra Yates:

ancestors. If it were not for them, there would be no us. You

Debra Yates:

know, and I think about the people that Nancy Ward saved

Debra Yates:

through the Tennessee area, the valley, you know, the foothills

Debra Yates:

of the Smoky Mountains, she saved countless, countless

Debra Yates:

countless lives of, of the settlers in the area, she would

Debra Yates:

warn of impending battles, you know, you know, catch this, my

Debra Yates:

son and my cousin are coming to kill you go hide. So that was,

Debra Yates:

you know, you would think it would be a really taboo type of

Debra Yates:

thing. She held the power of life and death in her hands. So

Debra Yates:

the importance that she held not only with the Women's Council,

Debra Yates:

but with, you know, the negotiation between the white

Debra Yates:

people, it's all inspiring to me, you know, children, you

Debra Yates:

know, need to a hero, they need heroes today. They need heroes

Debra Yates:

from yesterday, and yesteryear. And yesterday, decade and

Debra Yates:

yesterday, honored years ago, they don't need made up comic

Debra Yates:

people to admire more than anything in the world. Any

Debra Yates:

people that truly existed truly lived, and had a significant

Debra Yates:

part to play in history in life, she saved hundreds of lives,

Debra Yates:

which turned into 1000s of lives, which possibly turned

Debra Yates:

into hundreds of 1000s of lives. But people that never would have

Debra Yates:

got to be born, if it weren't for Nancy Ward. So Tennessee,

Debra Yates:

owes my grandmother such respect. And they have given it

Debra Yates:

to her. And I have had the absolute pleasure of working

Debra Yates:

with the Parks Department of Tennessee, in restoring Nancy's

Debra Yates:

grave site, in improving the Nancy Ward grave site is a

Debra Yates:

beautiful, beautiful thing. That just shows how much dedication

Debra Yates:

that those people have to my grandmother. And you know, I

Debra Yates:

feel like she's just stated tendencies, grandmother, people

Debra Yates:

come there, to that grave site to pray and show homage and

Debra Yates:

honor to this woman today. Almost every day somebody goes

Debra Yates:

there.

Gary Michels:

So the book talks about how you're working to

Gary Michels:

uphold Nancy's legacy today. Why is it important for others to

Gary Michels:

learn about her life?

Debra Yates:

I think because it's still something that

Debra Yates:

someone should, that people should follow. She had honors,

Debra Yates:

she had integrity. And she went to war for her family for her

Debra Yates:

tribe. And to know that I've got that kind of DNA in me.

Gary Michels:

Let me ask you one question. This is so intriguing.

Gary Michels:

What kind of legacy do you want for yourself?

Debra Yates:

Oh my. I just want to be known that I was a kind

Debra Yates:

and caring woman who cared about her family, who loved her family

Debra Yates:

that would do anything, I would die for my family, I would give

Debra Yates:

my life for any one of them. And I want them to always know that.

Debra Yates:

And through these interviews with people like you and the

Debra Yates:

other things that I've done, that stuff's going to now be on

Debra Yates:

the internet forever. That's what I want my legacy to be just

Debra Yates:

that I was a caring person and that I loved better than I was

Debra Yates:

loved.

Gary Michels:

If anybody wants to reach you to just get more

Gary Michels:

information about anything about your life for Nancy's, how would

Gary Michels:

they get in touch with you?

Debra Yates:

Probably the easiest way is through Facebook,

Debra Yates:

you can go to WWE dot woman and many names.com and reach my

Debra Yates:

publicist. The book is available on every venue out there from

Debra Yates:

Amazon, Barnes and Nobles books, million woman to many names, you

Debra Yates:

know, I'd be proud to have anybody look at it, read it,

Debra Yates:

leave a comment on Amazon, I need my five stars. I'm grateful

Debra Yates:

for for your time and for the time of others, and that if

Debra Yates:

anybody would like to read about a really inspirational woman

Debra Yates:

that that lived a couple 100 years ago, she's as relevant

Debra Yates:

today. She was then her message was pure. And it was in the end

Debra Yates:

offer peace. And she says, you know, let my sons be your sons.

Debra Yates:

Let your sons be mine, which was meant for all children to be

Debra Yates:

each other's children because we we honor and treasure life. And

Debra Yates:

Nancy most certainly did treasure life, she figured out

Debra Yates:

what her true destiny was and that was to do her best to lead

Debra Yates:

the people to peace.

Gary Michels:

Awesome. Well, listen, thank you so much for

Gary Michels:

your time. You've been an inspiration to me and I know our

Gary Michels:

audience is going to just love hearing the story. I had not

Gary Michels:

heard much about her before we found you. And now just to know

Gary Michels:

all about it is just really cool.

Debra Yates:

Thank you. That's a pleasure talking to you.

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Let's Talk Legacy
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What does it mean to build and maintain a legacy, either in business, or for your loved ones? What tools and resources are available to help? Join the discussion as host Gary Michels, along with exciting guests and real listeners just like you, tackle the answers to these questions, and learn how to grow today, for a better tomorrow.



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